Moira offers unique insight into Milo’s words

We at Superversive SF will soon be welcoming the lovely and talented Moira Greyland Peat among our members. For the moment, here is a guest post in which she gives us her unique perspective on #Milogate

I am the child of a gay father and a lesbian mother.  As a result of their interests and their friends, I was exposed to the gay community from the time I was very small.  I knew that there were many things that went on that straights would not understand, and still more that we were never to talk about.

Recently, Milo Yiannopoulos has gotten a lot of ink over speaking openly about the parts of the gay community that straights will not understand.  We do not understand, for example, that where girls want relationships, boys NEED sex, and adult men can provide that for them.  We also do not understand that sex, as early as possible, will get rid of hangups and make everyone happy.

One reason we straights don’t understand this stuff is because it is a load of horse manure.

And yes, I identify as straight myself, even though it was a great disappointment to my parents when I came out of the closet.  My mother was eventually able to joke about it, where my father simply found it infuriating to have me anywhere near when he had a boy he was interested in over to the house.

In any case, Milo has simply spoken openly of what we all knew.  Older gay guys like the younger ones, usually teens and barely teens, and my father even liked them younger than that.  He used his scholarly treatise, “Greek Love,” (J. Z. Eglinton, 1962) to bolster his position.

The judge was less sympathetic than his friends, and threw away the key, and my father died in jail as a result of my 1989 police report.

For some time now, I have been saying that the center of the gay community is the initiation of younger people by older people. One example of why can be found in the most popular porn genre: father-son porn. My father was not alone in his crimes, and our house was populated with lots of older men who wanted younger men, although back then they were called “chicken,” not Twinks.

Milo has said openly what is done in secret: these relationships are very common, and usually the way a young men comes into the gay community is through a rape or another sexual experience which is forced on him. The boy then is in the position of admitting he was unmanned, admitting he was a victim, coping with prosecution and victim status, or shutting up and hoping it will go away. Worse, because bodies respond, the boy is in the appalling predicament of having not hated all the sensations. For many, the easiest conclusion is to decide one is really gay, rather than to decide one is a victim.

Often the victim part is not figured out for years.

The fact is that Milo is alive and breathing and wildly successful, and that is exceptional in itself. My father’s victims are all broken, and some are dead. I refuse to criticize Milo for talking openly about what is practiced in secret. He is an exceptional writer and humorist. If we are to be truly diverse, we allow all viewpoints, not simply those we believe in.

I, for one, am delighted to tolerate him. Can you?

Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth


  • Sally

    This is very interesting, esp in light of Milo’s comments.

    • WORSEKarma

      You should bear in mind that at no point has Milo ever condoned pedophilia, and his “comments” are the result of careful editing by the same people who brought you the “Innocent Little Trayvon” fraud.

      • Sally

        I know that.

      • The pedophilia/statutory rape part is a lie– bearing false witness is WRONG, those who edited it are wrong, and the whole thing is an example of malicious destruction of reputation.

        That isn’t going to make people who object to sexual targeting of the vulnerable from going “hey, his unedited comments are about this, and not calling it sexual predation. Oh heck no.”
        Since we’re the same people who objected to that lifestyle even before it was brought to big public attention that, hey, the guy whose whole thing is he’s utterly flaming is part of that lifestyle, this is mostly relevant for the folks who previously were not aware of the stuff Moira describes, or hadn’t really considered the situation, consciously.


        Utterly unrelated: love your…ahem… icon.

  • Thank you for writing this. One of the things that seems to have been lost in the kerfuffle is that victims don’t always know that they’re victims until years later, and by then the identity has been formed. And yes, experiences that we know are bad in hindsight can seem normal and even enjoyable at the time that they occur.

    The spectacle of the last few days is the kind of thing that makes people afraid to be honest with their experiences. As difficult as this has undoubtedly been for Milo, it helps others to see people like him (and you, Moira) being strong.

    • Rob McGee

      “victims don’t always know that they’re victims until years later”

      Or, sometimes, people decide “Okay, I wasn’t exactly victimized, but if I had it to do over again, I still would’ve made different choices, and I wouldn’t encourage others to imitate what I did.”

      And yes, experiences that we know are bad in hindsight can seem normal and even enjoyable at the time that they occur.

      To me, Milo sounds like someone saying, “When I was 14 years old, an older neighbor used to take me riding on his motorcycle without a helmet. It was thrilling — wind in my hair, bugs in my teeth — and nothing bad ever happened. I turned out fine. Heck, what could go wrong?”

      Of course, most sensible people would argue that a grown-up who encourages a teenager to ride on a motorcycle without a helmet is being incredibly irresponsible and acting as a poor role model, even if the grown-up means no harm, and even though the teenager likes motorcycles.

      As the fine print in diet-pill ads says; “Results Not Typical.”

  • Rob McGee

    Well, Moira has certainly shown that she can be as provocative as Milo — but as with Milo, some of the points are brutally true, and some are exaggeration.

    Without doubt, a disturbing number of gay men are like her father: Zeuses seeking to score with a Ganymede. And I don’t mean only those who literally, actually molest minors; I include 50-year-old men chasing after 20-year-old college twinks who can pass for 15.

    But on the other hand, other gay men are perpetual Ganymedes looking for a Zeus to satisfy their Daddy-fixations — including 30-year-olds looking for 60-year-olds.

    And then there are gay men who find that they genuinely prefer to be with partners near to their own age.

    I was a would-be Ganymede when I was 14 — frequently fantasizing about handsome teachers, coaches, or neighbors in their 30s and 40s. But nothing ever happened; I remained a never-been-kissed virgin until I was 19, when I finally got to 2nd base with a male grad student only a few years older. A little later, I did have some encounters with “mature men,” and some of these were quite thrilling, but by and by I came to realize that intimacy was easier without a big generation gap. And at 45, I’m suspicious of guys under 35 or so — their intellectual immaturity is off-putting, even if they’re physically handsome.

    Regarding the claim that “father-son porn” is “the most popular porn genre,” I would flatly disagree. I’d say that the most pervasive theme in gay male porn (though not a universal theme) is “Alpha male and Beta male.” The father/son stuff is only a subset of this category — which also includes “Student and Professor,” “Nerd and Jock,” “Hoodlum and Cop,” “Athlete and Coach,” “Private and Drill Sergeant,” etc. There’s always a power & status difference, but not necessarily an age disparity. In some Alpha/Beta stories, the beta’s inferior status is confirmed; in others the beta ends up sexually humiliating the alpha; still others go in a more egalitarian direction and the beta is accepted as a “fellow alpha.”

    P.S. As I final thought, I would point you to the Wikipedia article on “hubris” — the homo-tolerant ancient Athenians looked down on anal sodomy, unless it was a man doing it to a male prostitute or slave-boy. And quite a few Jewish rabbis who know Hebrew argue that in Leviticus 18:22 (“If a man lies down with a man as with a woman, it is an abomination.”), the phrase “as with a woman” is a euphemism for “penetrating the hole between the legs.” And I think there’s some wisdom to this; if two males engage in mutual masturbation or non-penetrative “frottage,” neither one is a Top or a Bottom; it’s psychologically egalitarian. But when one male penetrates another, there’s invariably an active/passive dichotomy.

    • You and Moira should be exiled to Ganymede.

      • Rob McGee

        Well, if you supply the rockets and the spacesuits, I’m game to try colonizing the Jovian satellites.

        But for what reason should we be exiled, you deep thinker?

        • Our world has no place for such backwardness.

          • Rob McGee

            What “backwardness” do you think Moira and I have in common, though?

      • Mrs. Wright

        Hello, Yama. You are welcome to comment here, but please try keep your comments to the subject of the article, not to insulting other commenters.

        God bless you.

    • Robert Oscar Lopez

      Like Moira, I was immersed in LGBT culture since very early on, because one of my biological parents was gay and the other was replaced by a gay lover involved with my parent. I sought for decades to approach this issue with some kind of consideration for gay people like yourself, who might seem like decent people inside, and who I thought should not be dismissed out of hand, like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. But I have learned, over the last 46 years, that there is no engaging in such talk with people who want to defend gay subculture.

      Lesbians are certainly not involved in pederasty on this scale, and yet lesbians are overwhelmingly complicit in covering the crisis up, and in my years of public discourse on topics such as this, not one lesbian ever came forward to defend me against the slander, threats, and harassment from gay individuals and from gay organizations like HRC and GLAAD. Of the thousands of lesbians I have known, perhaps 30-50% were active participants in intimidation to discredit me, and 100% made the morally fraught choice to remain silent rather than stand up for people punished for telling the truth about rampant abuse in the community.

      Not all gay men are involved in pederasty, but very close to all of them are complicit in covering it up and silencing people who sound the alarms about it. When the Catholic Church was caught in the pederasty scandal, nobody least of all gay activists showed much interest in the defense that “not all Catholic priests molest children.” Whether 25% or 45% of Catholic priests had engaged in such acts, what was most distressing was that close to 100% of them helped to cover the problem up. People were horrified and disgusted by the fact that such a high-profile and powerful community as Catholics could collectively tolerate and even abet massive levels of child abuse and then show virtually no remorse or willingness to correct the problem.

      The gay community, now one of the communities with more money and power than virtually any other community claiming to be oppressed, is responding in ways worse than the Vatican. You claim that not all of your set are guilty–and yet you will not account for the conspicuous and shameful mass silence about what was happening in the heart of your social world. You allege “exaggeration” as if there is a massive moral distinction between 70% versus 85% of a community engaging in an activity rightfully viewed with horror by almost the entire world. You charm us with nostalgia over your own life, seemingly oblivious to the fact that we’ve figured out that the vast majority of reminiscences from gay men are cobbled together with wishful revisionism and outright lies, as evidenced by the fact that what prompted this debate was Milo’s own memories about his life, which we acknowledge are patently impossible even if we may accept that it is not Milo’s fault that his memories are distorted and perverted by his abusers. Society has had its fill of autobiographical musings from gay adult men reflecting on adolescence. We have moved to the accountability stage, where you are not the blameless victim but a mature human being with serious questions of collective responsibility to answer.

      The collective choices made by organizations claiming to represent gays such as yourself are nearly airtight proof against you. While the adults in the gay community have the rare distinction of being wealthier than the population at large yet plagued by shocking levels of mental and physical illness, the HRC, GLAAD, and the rest of Gay, Inc. show little interest in changing dynamics among gay adults, preferring instead to obsess incessantly about teenagers and children. From It Gets Better to “Welcoming Schools” to the plethora of saccharine Hollywood narratives about coming-of-age stories, the gay community is psychotically fixated on children and teens, the two demographics who are too young to know whether they are gay or not, and for whom sexual congress is highly dangerous. Where does this obsession come from? It is impossible to argue that it comes from authentic concern for other people who might be harmed by bigotry, because the solution to bullying is to train other children not to be mean to others; the solution is not to assume bullied children need to engage in homosexual activity and rush into their classrooms and youth clubs to tell them about anal sex, oral sex, mutual masturbation, and frottage. If concern for fellow homosexuals mattered, you would be rushing to address the social challenges of people you can assume are really homosexual–namely, people who are 25 years or older, with a fully formed frontal lobe of the brain, who have come out as homosexual and now contend with the social realities of long term citizenship in the gay community. Gay organizations have offered no help to gay adults, who are bullied and mistreated by other gays all the time.

      • Rob McGee

        Robert Oscar Lopez: I agree with most of what thou wrote, but I am an individual and have little control over what other members of my demographic do, though I have spent much of the past fifteen years defending gay pariahs like Bill Weintraub (who had the nerve to say that man/boy sex is disgusting, and anal sodomy is disgusting, and S&M is disgusting — in short, that male/male homosexuality should only occur on egalitarian terms between emotionally mature adults as equal partners).

        Please have the basic courtesy to distinguish between “thou, Rob McGee” (second-person singular), and “y’all homosexuals” (second-person plural). Thou art speaking to an individual who happens to be homosexual, not to a drone-unit in the Rainbow-Borg Hivemind.

      • Rob McGee

        P.S. Also, I forgot to add:

        because the solution to bullying is to train other children not to be mean to others

        While this is important, I also think that gay adults who are concerned about bullying of “LGBT youth” should encourage the kids to enroll in a kickboxing class, or Krav Maga, or some sort of practical self-defense training — and adults who can afford to should subsidize the lessons. If Dan “It Gets Better” Savage were really serious about the bullying problem, he’d be challenging Mixed-Martial-Arts champions to offer free seminars for LGBT youth — but he’d rather lecture everyone with tear-jerking anecdotes about homophobia, because he’s basically a [person who rides a loud, annoying Harley-Davidson motorcycle].

  • Moira Greyland is human garbage.

    • Mrs. Wright

      No one is garbage, Yama. Not you. Certainly not Moira, who is a sweetie. Isn’t there anything more joyful for you to do than fussing with people online? The Black Beast of hatred is such a cruel master.